1. Comment by David Maret - June 25, 2008 @ 07:20 AM why are the state's trying to impose costs to citizens of the states? the I-5 is a priority route for military and it is also a federal freeway. make the fed's do their required part and build the new bridge. they have the dollars if they quit spending trillions in Iraq and Pakastan to which seems to disappear once out of US.
2. Comment by John K - June 25, 2008 @ 09:03 AM This is absolutely ridiculous. A three lane bridge to reduce the bottle neck on a three lane bridge... On top of that adding tolls. All at a cost of over 3 billion dollars. Fed funds or state funds it is all tax funds. And to increase the sales tax rate in the state of Washington to supplement the costs is another joke. What in the world have I been paying the stupid oregon income tax for if not to use the roads. I commute across that bridge 5 days a week, I realize it is a problem, but adding tolls is only going to increase the congestion. A better start would be to widen the southbound side in Oregon from two lanes to three south of Jantzen Beach. If the federal and state governments are footing the bill for the constructions why is there going to be a toll? Also, Washingtonians have repeatedly rejected light rail in Vancouver. Now we are going to have it coming across a bridge to go nowhere. I have no faith in my state or local governments. If this is them helping us, I would hate to see what would happen if we make them mad.
3. Comment by Total Loser - June 25, 2008 @ 09:31 AM Politicians don't listen. We don't want light rail, we don't want tolls. Neither will help traffic. This plan sounds like a left wing dream (more sales tax, more tolls, federal funds, state funds, $3.5 billion). Write the County Commissioners and the city council to stop this madness.
4. Comment by The Real Story - June 25, 2008 @ 10:30 AM The new bridge is actually proposed to have 3 lanes each way for regional "through" traffic and 2-3 lanes for "local" on-off traffic (from Hazel Dell or west parts of Vancouver to shopping and jobs at Hayden Island, Delta Park, Swan Island, NE Portland, etc. Traffic studies show that this local on-off traffic represents a large percentage of the total bridge traffic. The widening going on south of the bridge through Delta Park will help, but the bridge still needs more lanes.
5. Comment by Will Bridge - June 25, 2008 @ 12:00 PM How is it that we were able to build the I-205 bridge without the burden of tolls, & now they are seemingly "a given"? The notion of starting tolls before the bridge is even built is preposterous. I suppose they will decide the I-205 bridge needs to be tolled, also.
6. Comment by John K - June 25, 2008 @ 12:42 PM Put it to a vote. Let the people decide.
7. Comment by Larry Hales - June 25, 2008 @ 12:42 PM Absolutely ridiculous… there will still be a huge bottleneck further down I-5 when it goes from 3 lanes down to 2. Why is it that ODOT refuses to address the real problem with the I-5 bottleneck? So, C-tran is going to raise the sales tax to pay for light rail, and then a toll is added to the current bridge? If C-tran puts light rail up for a public vote and plans to raise the sales tax to pay for it… it will fail miserably. I’m all for a new bridge, but it appears to be more of a $3Billion band-aid.
8. Comment by The Real Story - June 25, 2008 @ 01:53 PM "How is it that we were able to build the I-205 bridge without the burden of tolls"... Easy - Lots of Federal dollars were available for highway projects in the days before the 80s tax cuts. No taxes - no money. There is no money tree - it comes from us one way or another.
9. Comment by The Real Story - June 25, 2008 @ 02:00 PM "Why is it that ODOT refuses to address the real problem with the I-5 bottleneck?" The same complaint was propogated for months in these forums re the Delta Park bottleneck - which is now being fixed based on years of planning. These fixes are designed, funded, and scheduled over time and in phases. By the time any new bridge is actually built bottlenecks north and south will have been evaulated section by section and fixed section by section - assuming we all (local, state, regional) pay our share for the roads we want. There is no magic wand.
10. Comment by The Real Story - June 25, 2008 @ 04:28 PM For what it's worth - here is the link to the 2008-2011 OREGON STATEWIDE TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (STIP) as of June 19, 2008. Information for your analytical pleasure. http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/STIP/docs/2008_2011_Final_STIP/2008-2011_STIP_Amended.pdf
11. Comment by Bender Bending R. - June 25, 2008 @ 04:32 PM Communist Portland mayor Tom 'I love all taxes' Potter said this morning that the new bridge should FORCE PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR CARS. CRC has stated that one of the thru lanes each direction will be HOV ONLY 24 HOURS A DAY to increase congestion and reduce car traffic. In other words, this bridge will be used to tax the working class and drive people out of their cars and onto VERY SLOW Light Rail.
12. Comment by Bender Bending R. - June 25, 2008 @ 04:36 PM The Real Story - June 25, 2008 @ 01:53 PM "How is it that we were able to build the I-205 bridge without the burden of tolls"... Easy - Lots of Federal dollars were available for highway projects in the days before the 80s tax cuts. No taxes - no money. There is no money tree - it comes from us one way or another. _____________________________ Our gas taxes are some of the highest in the country and yet we never have enough money for roads, proving that money coming in has nothing to do with actual work getting done. Remember, we were promised the 520 bridge and Alaskan Viaduct if we passed a .09 increase and we are told there isn't enough money now due to massive hirings by WDOT.
13. Comment by Clear Head - June 25, 2008 @ 05:24 PM These are all passionate agruements, some not in tune with the reality of the situation. 1.Congestion, North: Number 1 cause of bridge congestion Northbound? Drivers who zone out and let their speed drop while going uphill over the bridge. It only takes a few daydreamers or cell phone users not paying attention to keeping their speed up to cause a blockage. Where does northbound congestion end? Top of the bridge perhaps? 2. Congestion, South: Number 1 cause of congestion Southbound? Two things really, not paying attention (as above) and dropping the lanes down to two. Why that hasn't been fixed before, I don't know. Smells like Portland politics to me. 3. Light rail: Any new houses built will have cableTV and any new bridges will have light rail. Period, get past it, you're only going to get an ulcer complaining about it. BTW, despite what we voted on last decade, more than 60% in Clark county currently support light rail. I don't support paying for a war but I still do it. That's the way we do it in the USofA. 4. Tolls: I know a few people deeply involved in the design of the bridge. They are some of the best in the country at what they do. Without getting deep into traffic flow modeling and fluid dynamics theory, when they say having a toll system won't clog traffic you should trust them. They know WAY more about it than any of us do. Tolls put the burden of payment on the user more than the taxpayer. 5.Politics: This is not a left wing conspiracy. Stop listening to talk radio. They ALL lie. Calling Tom a communist certainly helps a lot. So will calling other people names. How's your new ulcer coming along? 6. Reality: Folks, this is going to happen. You can either scream as the train rolls by or get on board and work to influence the process in a direction that is more in line with your views.
14. Comment by Bender Bending R. - June 25, 2008 @ 05:37 PM Clear Head, '3. Light rail: Any new houses built will have cableTV and any new bridges will have light rail. Period, get past it, you're only going to get an ulcer complaining about it. BTW, despite what we voted on last decade, more than 60% in Clark county currently support light rail. I don't support paying for a war but I still do it. That's the way we do it in the USofA.' Then we will not be building a Light Rail bridge. The 60% you are putting forward is a joke of a survey that included mainly people from Portland and even a 12-year-old from Camas. Put Light Rail to a vote and we will give the supporters an ulcer. '6. Reality: Folks, this is going to happen. You can either scream as the train rolls by or get on board and work to influence the process in a direction that is more in line with your views.' Light Rail has NOTHING in common with OUR views and is the reason why it has been voted down by VANCOUVER AND PORTLAND consistently. '5.Politics: This is not a left wing conspiracy. Stop listening to talk radio. They ALL lie. Calling Tom a communist certainly helps a lot. So will calling other people names.' An individual that preaches moving people on to a failed rail system stinks of communism. Have fun living in Portland and stop trying to tell people up here what to think and how to vote.
15. Comment by Bender Bending R. - June 25, 2008 @ 06:50 PM Two more attacks at MAX station reported Posted by Brad Schmidt, The Oregonian June 25, 2008 17:39PM Portland and Gresham police responded to separate armed robbery and stabbing incidents last week at the 162nd Avenue MAX station, police said Wednesday. On June 15, two robbers took $300 from a MAX rider waiting for a westbound train at 5 a.m., according to a Portland Police Bureau report. One flashed a gun. Then, on June 21, one man was stabbed and another assaulted while waiting at the eastbound station at about 2 a.m. Gresham police arrested William Wayne West Jr., 44, in the later incident. He is accused of second- and fourth-degree assault and criminal mischief. -- Brad Schmidt; bradschmidt@news.oregonian.com
16. Comment by Sande S - June 25, 2008 @ 07:25 PM Southbound I-5 - fix the lane that ends south of Jantzen Beach, you fix the bottle neck. Northbound I-5 - move the on-ramp at the beginning of the bridge, and fix the bottleneck. If it wasn't coming onto the freeway right there, it wouldn't be soo dangerous. Either way, if tolls are placed on bridges, commuters will just take I-205. I'd like to know where are those taxes for road projects are going....Seattle? Everett? certainly not Vancouver.
17. Comment by Bender Bending R. - June 25, 2008 @ 07:38 PM Sande S, 'Either way, if tolls are placed on bridges, commuters will just take I-205. I'd like to know where are those taxes for road projects are going....Seattle? Everett? certainly not Vancouver.' CRC's plan is for tolls on both bridges to discourage people using either one. We get $.69 of every gas tax dollar we pay where as Seattle area gets $1.45 of every dollar they pay.
18. Comment by Clear Head - June 25, 2008 @ 09:21 PM Bender, I am all for putting light rail to a vote. I have no doubt that it would receive broad support at this time. You may have a unique view of what constitutes the failure. Light rail systems all over world, including MAX, continue to grow commuter ridership into areas of dense employment. There are many "measures" of success and it's just not reasonable to pick one and point to it as a basis to support an emotionally based arguement. Again with the name calling. I would think my detailed analysis of the traffic flow during commute would belie the many years I endured it. I have been called many things but none so low or incorrect as "Oregonian". Stick and stones.....but nothing real from you.
19. Comment by Bender Bending R. - June 25, 2008 @ 10:16 PM Clear Head, 'You may have a unique view of what constitutes the failure. Light rail systems all over world, including MAX, continue to grow commuter ridership into areas of dense employment. There are many "measures" of success and it's just not reasonable to pick one and point to it as a basis to support an emotionally based arguement.' 1. Yet Portland ridership on the system only went up when gas prices went up drastically. Mass transit only moves 3% of Portland population at present time but moved about 10% when Light Rail was first put in. 2. Portland voters have turned down several Light Rail extensions. 3. Denver, San Jose, Denver and countless other cities have seen ridership DROP for mass transit when Light Rail was put in. 4. Denver has again turned down an expansion of the system. Sorry to hear the name 'Oregonian' hurt your delicate feelings, but then again I don't really care. 'I would think my detailed analysis of the traffic flow ' Yet ALL studies show the systems bring NO congestion relief. I will have to go with the experts over a supposed rider.
20. Comment by Ace High - June 26, 2008 @ 07:35 AM Bender Bending I have a solution to all of your never ending whining about Liberals. There is a red state just to the east of Spokane. I am sure you will find it to your liking. Good riddance.
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